ANS -- two pieces: Fascism Expert: Don’t Expect Trump To Leave WH, If He Loses, plus

Here are what amounts to two articles, both short,  Though the second of them appeared as a comment on the first article, they are not otherwise closely related.  The first article is about part of an interview with an expert on fascism, and whether or not America is already into fascism, and, more precisely, will Trump go quietly if he loses the election?  the second, the one that was a comment, is a reply to someone's statement that Mussolini was a Socialist.  It, seemingly knowledgeably, refutes that notion, in some detail.  I thought it might be a useful piece to have if anyone ever tells you that the dictators of WWII were really socialists -- something I have heard multiple times.  

Find them here:  

--Kim

Fascism Expert: Don't Expect Trump To Leave WH, If He Loses

Ben Ghiat Says Trump's following 'authoritarian playbook"

Manny Otiko

Jun 12 · 3 min read

Dr. Ruth Ben-Ghiat teaches Italian and History at NYU. Her expertise is "fascism, authoritarianism, war, propaganda, and Donald Trump," according to the college's website. I reached out to her to get her opinions on Trump and America's descent into fascism. This is the conversation.

Is President Trump Fascist? | NYT Opinion

Otiko: As an expert in fascism, at what stage do you think America is?

Ben-Ghiat: Every authoritarian experience is different, but Trump has now amassed a loyal following, gotten many Americans to hate the press, has control of paramilitary-style forces (CBP, ICE, militias,) and the "right" right-wing men in key positions, like (William) Barr as attorney general. His next step is to secure his election no matter what — fraud, foreign-assisted infrastructural emergencies, voter suppression, martial law. We will see.

Many people who know Trump, like his former lawyer Michael Cohen, don't think he will leave office if he loses. He will likely declare the election fraudulent and refuse to accept the results. Authoritarians will do anything to remain in office, and Trump needs to stay there to keep immunity from prosecution and the corrupt system he has for making dollars off the presidency going. — Dr. Ruth Ben-Ghiat

Otiko: Were you surprised by the rise of Trump and his descent into fascism?

Ben-Ghiat: I have been writing about Trump since fall 2015 to warn Americans that he is following an authoritarian playbook, so nothing has surprised me, no.

Otiko: Trump blew through so many checkpoints. His rise can be blamed on the failures of the media, the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary. Is there one group you blame the most?

Ben-Ghiat: I don't think it's useful to single one group out for blame. Trump is a symptom of a democracy already corroded by GOP voter disenfranchisement, support for white supremacy, and more general structural racism and adrift among voters toward more authoritarian attitudes.

He came along and energized many already formed tendencies, and through charismatic leadership, got a mass following. Certainly, every institution and branch of government helped his rise, and cowardice and denial did their part too.

Otiko: Why does Trump still have supporters at this stage, when he threatened to turn troops on American citizens?

Dr. Ruth Ben-Ghiat (NYU)

Ben-Ghiat: Historically once people bond to authoritarians, and, for elites, make their deals with him (they support him, seeing him as a vehicle for doing things they have wanted to do for years, as with the

Evangelicals and all those wanting to reverse gender and racial emancipation of the Obama years) they generally stick with these leaders until the bitter end. It takes an economic crisis, losing war or other large event to cause defections.

Otiko: As an expert in fascist regimes, how do you see this ending? Will Trump leave voluntarily if he loses in November?

Ben-Ghiat: Many people who know Trump, like his former lawyer Michael Cohen, don't think he will leave office if he loses. He will likely declare the election fraudulent and refuse to accept the results. Authoritarians will do anything to remain in office, and Trump needs to stay there to keep immunity from prosecution and the corrupt system he has for making dollars off the presidency going.

Donald Trump's Fascist Week: The Daily Show

Politics: Fast and Slow

Cutting through the headlines. Demystifying the future. Creating sensible policy.

• Politics
• Fascism
• Election 2020
• Democracy
• Trump

WRITTEN BY

Manny Otiko

Manny Otiko writes about race, politics and sports. He has been published in Salon and LA Weekly. Follow him on Twitter @mannyotiko.

Politics: Fast and Slow

Politics: Fast and Slow – Medium Slow news is good news. In a media world of panic, hysteria, and negativity, we need to be cool and calm to make...

Slow news is good news. In a media world of panic, hysteria, and negativity, we need to be cool and calm to make sense of the headlines and the systems which define us.

Sean Christopher

Jun 20

I'm posting this here, as it was first a reply to Bill Anderson, who wrote me below to explain that Mussolini's Fascism was a left-wing Socialist movement that was possible only with support from trade unions and Big Government. Which is an interesting take, to say the least. I suggested that he post his piece here.

That's an interesting interpretation.

I, too, have studied modern Italy, and only laterally Fascism and Mussolini. I am bilingual English-Italian and have spent a lot of time in Italy, where I've read a lot and talked to a lot of people, including older Italians who lived through part of the ventennio, and the war, and some who fought as anti-Fascist partisans (in Communist or Socialist or Liberal Catholic battalions).

What you write about the history of Fascism - its roots in and its success due to Socialism and trade unions - is shocking, to say the least. Mussolini's time as a Socilalist was short and not too sweet. He was editor of the Socialist Party newspaper "Avanti", but when he became a fervent voice pushing Italy into WW1, he was EXPELLED from the Socialist Party - in 1914!

What Mussolini was, if anything, was an opportunist. He used his opportunities effectively. He used his time in the Socialist Party to become the newspaper's voice for interventionism, which attracted support, no doubt, from, shall we say, people inclined to military violence and who had inside them bigger, grander, more glorious visions of Italy, which had grown "soft".

It's after WW1 that Mussolini, injured in the war and thus a "war hero" for a certain type of man, that Mussolini starts playing on the hurt, anger, frustration, impatience of post-war Italians who are dissatisfied with how things turned out (poverty, hunger, unemployment, despite "winning" the war). There are parallels to Hitler's political origins in post-war Germany.

Mussolini and his squadristi OPPOSED the Socialists, Communists, trade unions and farmer associations in the so-called "Red Biennial" in 1919-20, marked by strikes and violence between the future Fascists and the Left. Mussolini's support grew immensely here, in opposition to BOTH the Left and the "weak, ineffective" liberal government (more parallels to Hitler). Things came to a head in 1922 with Mussolini's "March on Rome", which was only possible because of the indecisiveness of the King, the government and the military, which was at first ordered to stop the march before it could get to Rome. Mussolini had proclaimed that the Fascist Party would "accept" only a Parliament controlled by the party, if not filled entirely by Fascist politicians, which at first was rejected. But in that precise moment, Mussolini the Opportunist took advantage of the indecisiveness of Italy's leadership, which decided not to halt the March, the army was told to stand down, and Mussolini marched on and took control of the Parliament in Rome.

It must be emphasized that Mussolini and the Fascists were "welcomed", if at first hesitantly, by the powers that be (King, generals, capitalists) precisely because they fought AGAINST the Left - Socialism, Communisn, the union movement - and at a certain point the Church entered the picture, seeming to "endorse" Mussolini and his policies, but (I think, though others disagree) in reality aiming to "limit the damage" and exert at least some control over the dictator.

Where does that leave us with Trump? The word Fascism gets abused today just about as much as Socialism. When people call someone a Fascist or a Socialist, it often means nothing more than "something bad". Are there any similarities between Trump and Mussolini? Opportunism. Political opportunism and timing, seizing on the right moment. Trump's MAGA slogan echoes Mussolini's speeches to spur Italians to reclaim glory for the descendants of ancient Rome. Mussolini switched political parties when it was expedient. Trump had always been a big donor to the Democratic Party and I don't think it's far-fetched to think he could've run as a Democrat, too. A bit like Michael Bloomberg, say. Trump demands blind loyalty from his circle of advisers, and witness the record number of times he's changed them. I think that there are similarities between Trump and Mussolini as political opportunists, and some other their "style" in taking command of things and spurring their followers. Egomania. Infallibility. Base references to their "sexual exploits" to inspire their male followers (though Mussolini appealed to women, too: see the collections of "Letters from women to the Duce", etc.). Fascism in America? Not yet. Not till the military gets behind the Great Leader. I think a better comparison for Trump would be a South American Caudillo.