Friday, August 09, 2019

ANS a conversation about jobs and workers.

I just copied and sent this to one of our readers, but it occurred to me you all might like to see it.  It's a FaceBook conversation about undocumented workers and whether Americans will take those jobs.  By the way, this is the sort of conversation I see on FB.  
no link
--Kim




 

In the wake of the Mississippi raid, cue the chorus: "But Americans won't take those jobs!"

Stop. JUST STOP. This is 100% unadulterated chickenshit. Americans absolutely WILL take these jobs -- if they're well-enough paid, and the working conditions are safe, and the hours are reasonable. Because, as citizens of a nation that claims to be developed and civilized, we expect our jobs to treat us fairly, and with a modicum of dignity.

The problem isn't American workers. It's the owners, who don't want to pay what that fairness and dignity cost. So they import illegal workers that they can underpay, steal wages from, work long hours, and force into horrifically dangerous conditions -- and who are in no position to complain, or hold the bosses accountable.

I lived in Canada for years. There are chicken farms up there, too, and Canadians work in them. Because Immigration Canada isn't afraid to shut down businesses that hire illegal workers, Canadian meat plant workers get full wages and legal hours, and work in plants that meet provincial health and safety standards. These are decent jobs with decent pay and conditions, and the bosses have no problem finding people who are glad enough to have them.

The fact that so many Americans cannot even visualize how this could be shows just how low we've sunk. Mississippi is the poorest state in the US, and its citizens need and deserve to be first in line for these jobs.

Don't arrest the workers. Arrest the bosses who broke US law to recruit them, import them, and give them fake documents so they could run their plants entirely beyond the reach of US employment law. These guys are criminals who've stolen billions from the would-be working families of Mississippi, and the tax coffers as well.

When you parrot the line that "Americans won't take these jobs," you're doing these bosses' work for them, and excusing deeply anti-American behavior. You're making apologies for the system that created this tragedy. Stop being their apologist. Demand that we return to a nation of American workplaces that are fit for American workers.

Comments
  • Vernon Wells
    Vernon Wells Thanks for posting this
  • Marta Evry
    Marta Evry Fair points
  • Chris Ladd
    Chris Ladd But the factory owners are white...
  • Stephen Benson
    Stephen Benson i worked the cantaloupe, watermelon, and lettuce fields growing up. that's why i support UFW. i've done that work. i know what it involves. i've also seen the vicious exploitation of the growers. to my friend in the fields "si, se puede."
  • Leroy Brown
    Leroy Brown They haven't wanted to pay decent wages for twenty years now
  • Margie De Lorge-BeWell
    Margie De Lorge-BeWell Thanks. I've parroted that line, but now I see this from a different altitude and it makes more sense. . The last thing I want to do is make apologies for a crooked system.
  • Sara Robinson My grandfather was a small farmer north of Bakersfield. He grew mainly potatoes, cotton, and milo, and hired migrant worker crews to harvest his crops. (My grandmother was a schoolteacher, and taught the workers' kids.) I'd often be visiting in the latSee More
  • Margie De Lorge-BeWell
    Margie De Lorge-BeWell Sharing. Thanks.
  • David Clow
    David Clow The problems with chickenshit arguments are, 1) there's a colossal machine making them; 2) there's a colossal audience willing to swallow them; 3) the people who make them and the people who swallow them both delight in the frustration they cause us. ASee More
  • Sara Robinson Well, I'd like to think that I'm encouraging people to confront them, starting with pushing back on this narrative. 

    Don't argue with them. Bust their criminal asses.
  • Chris Ladd
    Chris Ladd Americans already do dirty jobs in places where they get paid fairly. What's happening in Mississippi is a legacy of the South's unique attachment to [ahem] unpaid labor. There's a pretty simple market solution available that would dry up the flow of undocumented labor without having to deport anyone.https://blog.chron.com/.../american-workers-doing-dirty.../
    American workers doing 'dirty jobs'
    American workers doing 'dirty jobs'
    American workers doing 'dirty jobs'
  • Sara Robinson I know you loathe unions, Chris -- but I don't know how we move past this without strong ones.
  • Sara Robinson (Or, as you suggest, some kind of UBI.)
    • Colin Summers
      Colin Summers That seems to have failed in a couple places, no?
    • Leroy Brown
      Leroy Brown The ones at the top have demonized unions for decades. And many people all middle class bought it. Just convince someone has a better cahance at getting paid a decent wage than you do. Bam they become the enemy
    • David Clow
      David Clow We're going to need to reinvent the labor union and redefine its tactics.
    • Kim Cooper
      Kim Cooper Colin Summers Depends on what you mean by "failed". It failed to pass when it was up for a vote in one country--I don't remember which-- but I heard there was a lot of propaganda against it before the election -- and the vast majority of people are uSee More
    • Sara Robinson We do have UBI for a large sector of the American population -- everybody over 65. You need a reliable source of revenue -- the SSI trust fund, Alaskan oil, big taxes on tech, whatever. That's always the catch.

      But if you can fund it, it seems to offer a huge range of social goods -- not least, as Chris point out, giving everybody fuck-you money to quit crappy jobs, and making bosses work harder to attract employees.
    Kim Cooper
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  • Margie De Lorge-BeWell
    Margie De Lorge-BeWell To be clear, I didn't repeat that narrative to excuse companies for hiring and underpaying undocumented workers, but I bought into the idea that most middle class citizens avoid working in poultry factories or farm fields. In Arkansas, the keeping, soSee More
  • Sara Robinson Interesting to see all my Arkansan friends showing up for this one. The only one missing, I think, is Barry Kendall.
  • Thomas Simpson
    Thomas Simpson In Ohio, they busted a local Nursery. 
    The employees gave testimony to how the owners covered them. 
    Now they are facing charges. 

    Rightfully so. 

    Gkad you finally said what I have been thinking for a while. 
    The owners should be held liable for each illegal they have working for them. 
    Somehow, I think they may get off easy.
  • Tom Sullivan
    Tom Sullivan It's amazing how conditioned we are to view the world and our place in it through the eyes of the self-described "job creators." It's "Being John Malkovich," only more permanent. Their costs. Their profits. Their economic viability comes before workers' safety and well-being. Let your guard down a minute, and you're right back there behind their eyes.
    • Sara Robinson It's depressing how many progressives have internalized this very conservative idea. We don't have problems recruiting teachers, nurses, pilots, or farm workers when the conditions are good and the wages are fair. And if you can't run your business without exploiting people, either accept lower profits, raise your prices, or find another line of work.
  • Dee Austin
    Dee Austin EXCELLENT points!
  • Terrance Heath
    Terrance Heath Exactly. If these jobs came with fair wages and hours, good benefits, safe working conditions, etc., then people would certainly take them.
  • Joe Gallagher
    Joe Gallagher This is about law and order as the start arresting management.
Kim Cooper
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